And chaosflamespirit ;

Just a thought; I've had a very bad week, and I don't take well to stupidity and ignorance (probably due to the fact that I have to call these sort of people all the time at my job).  Does this mean you are superior at your work place? And I thought techie was the only one superior.

Your responses are entertaining.

Who bragged about doing extraction? Quite the contrary, there is a reason I couldn’t continue with it. Aside from the fact I don’t live in an area with a volunteer fire dept and ambulance corp. anymore, I had a very difficult time doing the job. My emotions got in the way. At least I recognized that.

It was you who brought that into the discussion in an attempt to solidify your weak position on this. My response was going to your inquiry of have I seen this. Yes, I have and I wasn’t bragging.

Your post contained:

Well guess what, I was at the Stockbridge accident and saw that kid take his last breathe when he died while the firefighters were cutting him out.  The impact was so hard the center post was in the middle of the car.  And also I have been in public safety for 32 years and have seen how the increase of children deaths has occurred because of stupidity. Every seen a mother grieve over her child being killed?  While the child is lying dead in the car or street from being ejected?

There is a lot of debate on here. People have different view points. You’re having a problem because I don’t agree with you. Additionally the facts you’ve presented do not support the position you’re trying to take.

It’s very apparent you don’t fully read material you’re bringing into the discussion. But really the only difference in our view points is I don’t think drivers education will have much of an impact. You do. Other than that, we’re on the same page.

You bring your entire basis for opinion down to education or death. Education is important, so is researching to form an educated opinion on a particular subject. Why proceed down a path which would be costly and yield nearly no results.

You want results? Force the kids who want to drive before the age of 18 to take a drivers training course. A comprehensive course which not only provides some actual driving experience but extensive class room training. Those courses aren’t cheap and should be paid by the teen who desires to drive before age 18.

You bring TADRA into the conversation which began as a graduated drivers license program and attempt to rally around the 44.5% reduction in speed related accidents to support your feeling on drivers education when drivers education didn’t become a part of TADRA until the first of this year and wouldn’t be part of the 44.5% reduction. READ what you brought into the debate. Understand it before you go around claiming drivers education yielded a 44.5% reduction.

Who’s being bull headed? The very facts you bring into the discussion don’t support your position but you maintain they do and won’t attempt to do further research.

Your initial reply to me accused me of defending the guilty. What is either driver guilty of? The young man in Stockbridge was charged but he’s not guilty yet. The young girl, I don’t know anything further. But, I defended neither of them. Go back, read and understand.

I’m starting to agree more with drivingisnorocketscience as it relates to you. Disagree with you and you take your toys and run away. What kind of person are you anyway?

Your last attempt was to bring a tragedy in Coweta County into this. There was a piece on the Channel 2 news last night. The news didn’t state name withheld because of age. They didn’t provide gender and further stated the police aren’t sure if any charges will be filed. This tells me a couple of things. First and foremost I should wait until I form any sort of opinion. Second, how would it relate to drivers education? Sure, it’s a tragedy but without any facts other than the woman was killed we know nothing.

Power is my goal? What power can be obtained from bantering on a blog? You’re delusional if you think power can be obtained from a blog debate.

I’m sorry to say, you’re very easy to demean. Your apparent lack of education shines like a beacon through the words you type. You can correct that. Read, pause, understand and then respond.

You have a inferiority complex as well. Your last post is probably your most intelligent response to date. Now you claim both Chaosflamespirit and I both think we’re superior. Are you a comedian as well?

Chaosflamespirit didn’t say you were younger. He/she stated

Your typing skills and (lack of) an ability to comprehend seem to fit someone much younger.

You can not comprehend what’s given to you. The message was you appear to be younger, not you’re younger.

And for me to think you will agree with me?  Get a life.  I’m beginning to believe you’re all three Techie, drivingisnorocketscience and 3b2c.  It has been know that happens.  You’re perfect.  I have no more use for you and platewire.  Who’s to say this is your web site and you get your rocks off downgrading entries.  I don’t play that game.  I have better things to do with my life.

Below is a FULL list of every question you’ve asked in both threads

Was I wrong?  - You answered that yourself - first reply you continued this with discussion

In response to your inquires as to if I was there when these accidents happen? – you answered it yourself. But no I wasn't

Every seen a mother grieve over her child being killed? – I responded to this and you claimed I was bragging.

While the child is lying dead in the car or street from being ejected? – I responded to this as well as part of the previous question and you claimed I was bragging.

And unfair to the poor? – This was explained as a misinterpretation on your part.

Did anybody hold a gun to your head while engulf food all day long? – Your rant on people with handicap permits and I did respond.

How do others feel about it?  Education or death????  - You were asking for more participants and now are unhappy others have joined the conversion.

Is big brother watching???? – I didn’t answer this – silly question

Makes you wonder if the person that started this web has a thing for starting arguments? – I didn’t answer this, I can not answer on behalf of someone else.

And for me to think you will agree with me? – I’ve answer this – we’re not that far apart.

Wonder why they are with-holding his name and age???? – I responded to this as well.

Continued in next post - post too large

I reread my entry followed by your rant. You’re a nut. Take your head out of your ass and do some research on your own. Don’t just skim the information, READ it.

You can’t even read the sources you provide. I’ve told you we’re not that far out of agreement. You think drivers education will save a lot of lives, I don’t agree at least if the programs are created by the state and administered by the public schools. Drivers education programs are little more than a joke under these conditions.

Hold my head high for each child that dies on Georgia road?

I actually want stricter licensing restrictions than you do. I want more education than you do. Learn to read and understand.

You stated I defended the two people you used as examples – bullshit go read

You state because I don’t support state drivers education I’m for no education. Driver training is far more extensive than simple drivers education. It would be more costly but better. I don’t feel the taxpayers should foot the bill, the new driver should have to pay for it. Why shouldn’t they? Or wait until age 18.

Maybe larger text will help.

As for me, I work at a computer frequently. Over the past week I’ve been moving data around in preparation to take over another business. During this transition I have to frequently wait for data movement to complete before I can continue. It’s during those times right now I’m posting here, reading news etc. Yes, I have a lot of time to debate on here.

If attacking someone in you mind is disagreeing with someone else then I feel sorry for you. Healthy debate is a great way for people to come away with more knowledge and a better rounded understanding of a subject. I didn’t start the personal crap until after you did. Don’t forget your initial response to my reply “flo”.

How did I turn it around? I haven’t changed my position. Go back and read. Go back to the very beginning. It’s all still there I can not change what has already been posted.

You initially claimed I defended the persons, where? I didn’t say I was against drivers education, I am still unsure how I feel about it being required. Drivers training is better, actually teach them fully much as we would someone driving a school bus or for a CDL. Give the education some meaning. Not just some bullshit lessons and a few rounds in a parking lot.

You can’t use someone ILLEGALLY driving to illustrate a point as it relates to your argument. Additionally, the incident with the Cherokee County girl has more to do with inexperience than education. Very experienced drivers also over correct.

Let’s revisit that first post and I’ll highlight what you missed

Drivers education may reduce the number of deaths, it won’t eliminate them. And nobody knows for certain if we would have a reduction of fatalities either.

As part of your argument you bring up someone illegally driving a vehicle. Drivers education wouldn’t have had an impact there. We don’t know the details on that. If he ran the sign because he didn’t care then he would have done it anyway. If it was because he didn’t see it because they were playing around in the car I doubt education would have been helpful there either.

The Cherokee County incident would be inexperience. Even with driver’s education the overcorrection may have occurred anyway. Drivers with decades of experience behind them overcorrect. But, it is possible with track training she may have been better able to cope. There’s no way to determine what the outcome would be. Panic is what causes overcorrection in most cases. There is a big difference between a controlled environment correcting a skid and an unexpected loss of control on a highway. Are you certain she didn’t have drivers education behind her?

It’s easy to make a knee jerk reaction after tragedy. Do you or I really know what happened in the two incidents you used as the basis of your argument. No, neither of us know for certain what occurred. It’s possible nobody but the two drivers will ever know.

I am not sure how I feel about required drivers education. While it’s a valuable experience I’m not sure how much of an actual difference it’ll make. Training would be better. But, who’s going to pay for that? It would be a large bill for the tax payers and if you laid the financial burden on the driver/parents then somehow it would be unfair to the poor.

I brought my entire first reply back into this thread and you see it as trickery. Did you even notice it was word for word what you initially got upset with? I highlighted  portions to help you focus on the intention. Then you say I keep bringing into the debate how the program will be paid for. It was the first post word for word. READ IT in the other thread.

I will try to keep this simple.

The additional accident victim, a tragedy, yes a part of this debate no. What are the facts and how does this relate to this debate on drivers education? If you don’t know the facts how can you use it to further your point? Someone has been killed, that’s sad. The driver may have been young. The drivers name is being withheld because the driver is young, or not. You’re assuming again. I’ll submit you’re probably right about the driver being young but what are the facts? Don’t ASSUME. Did that driver not take drivers education? How can you be sure if you don’t even know his/her name or gender?

You can’t even fully justify the first two drivers you brought into this. Did either of them have drivers education? And if you know, what is your source of information? Don’t ASSUME.

You’ve made assumptions through this entire debate. You get mad when I read the information you presented and tell you what the information actually means. You used TADRA to support your position drivers education should be required. You can’t see past the fact drivers education was not a part of TADRA until this year but yet you spout the 44.5% reduction in defense of drivers education. I would have agreed if you said the 44.5% reduction was the result of a graduated licensing program. Do you even know what a graduated licensing program is? I’ll give you a hint, it’s not drivers education.

I’ve supplied you with multiple sources of information to read. Have you looked?

Why do I bring money into this? Simple, we already waste enough tax dollars on worthless programs. Make this mean something to the kids, make them work for it. You can’t expect they’ll respect anything if we just keep handing everything to them. You can’t solve every problem with money.

I can understand where your point of view is coming from. I couldn’t do your job. But, you’re allowing your emotion to cloud your judgment. Detach your emotions, read what has been written. And quit being so angry. Our disagreement from the beginning has been slight.

I haven’t ignored anything you’ve written, I have read every word. I don’t agree with everything you say but I did read your point of view. And responded with my point of view which you interpret as an attack. I actually respect your point of view, I simply don't agree with it.

I would be happy to see a requirement of EVERYONE be retested and if they fail be forced to pay for remedial training. Myself included in that.

Re: red light cameras

OK, because it’s you. If there was a guarantee the electronic surveillance wouldn’t go beyond red light cameras and maybe the occasional speed camera I would probably just sit back and not worry. I have nothing to fear with red light cameras, speed cameras would cause me to slow down a bit.

It won’t stop at red light cameras or speed cameras. In 10 years if nothing is done electronic monitoring will be pervasive in our society. We must be careful what we permit the government to monitor. It’s not a government for the people, the part which comes first is a government by the people. We’re losing sight of that at an alarming rate, especially post 9/11. We’ve actually become willing to give up personal freedoms for perceived added security.

I’m completely embarrassed I didn’t consider something brokemoto brought up. Technology frequently malfunctions. I shouldn’t have missed that since most of my income is derived from malfunctioning technology.

Keep in mind I’m in the technology industry and keep up with the latest trends and gadgetry. Never mind science fiction book ideas, some of the scary things we read about years ago could be implemented easily today.

Imagine if you and I had this conversation 20 years ago. What would your reaction to be electronic enforcement then? Times are changing, it’s up to us if the changes are for the better, or worse.